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Forum Studenti •Basi e componenti
Pagina 1 di 2

Basi e componenti

Inviato: martedì 24 dicembre 2013, 9:41
da GIMUSI
allego le soluzioni :?: del test n.1 "Basi e componenti" in rev01

nel secondo esercizio del punto 8 i valori sono invertiti...la soluzione corretta è [tex](-3,0,1,0)[/tex]

e.rapuano ha segnalato un errore nel secondo vettore del settimo esercizio: la soluzione corretta è [tex](1, 1, 0, -1)[/tex]

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: martedì 24 dicembre 2013, 10:23
da e.rapuano
ok, ma io al quinto, per le componenti del vettore (0,-2,1) mi trovo (51,-37,5)...
ma per il settimo e l'ottavo bisogna fare la matrice inversa di una 4x4?

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: martedì 24 dicembre 2013, 10:37
da GIMUSI

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: mercoledì 25 dicembre 2013, 20:37
da Massimo Gobbino
In generale, se uno deve trovare le componenti di un solo vettore può convenire risolvere il sistema. Se uno deve trovare le componenti di più vettori può invece convenire invertire la matrice. Ora, se uno risolve il sistema con Gauss, fa più o meno la stessa fatica che invertire la matrice. Anche l'inversa di una 4*4 costa meno di 2 minuti se fatto con Gauss-Jordan ... e poi alla fine uno può sempre controllare con matrixcalc.org :D

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: domenica 5 gennaio 2014, 19:11
da alex994
scusare se rompo ma mi potreste spiegare come fare l'esercizio n°7 ? (ho gia fatto la verifica dell'esistenza delle basi)
e anche come trovare le componenti delle matrici?

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: domenica 5 gennaio 2014, 19:29
da GIMUSI

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: lunedì 20 gennaio 2014, 15:59
da matt_93
A me la seconda parte dell'esercizio 8 mi torna: (-3/2, 0, 1, -3/2)
può essere che io abbia sbagliato i conti, però è l'unico esercizio che non mi torna.

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: lunedì 20 gennaio 2014, 16:47
da GIMUSI

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: lunedì 20 gennaio 2014, 18:32
da matt_93
Si, esatto, ho trascritto male i dati :lol:
Grazie mille per il chiarimento

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: sabato 8 febbraio 2014, 11:09
da e.rapuano
ma io le componenti del secondo vettore del settimo esercizio me le trovo col sistema:
1 2 -1 2 1
0 1 0 0 1
2 -1 1 0 3
1 0 0 1 0
e alla fine mi esce:
(1, 1, 0, -1)
Mentre al secondo vettore dell'ottavo esercizio mi esce (3,3,1,0)

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: sabato 8 febbraio 2014, 16:16
da GIMUSI

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: domenica 9 novembre 2014, 15:48
da Pirello
Non riesco a capire come trovare le componenti del sesto punto (Spazio di polinomi di grado minore o uguale a 2). Ho già controllato che le basi date siano effettivamente delle basi, così ho composto il "sistema" con una equazione uguagliandola a X, però così facendo mi vengono due parametri liberi... Spiego meglio il mio dubbio, mi viene quest'equazione :
[tex]ax^2 + x(b+c) +(a+2b+3c)[/tex] ecco ora posso sbattere via gli x^2 e x ponendo a=0 , b+c =1 e a-2b+3c =0 ??

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: domenica 9 novembre 2014, 18:28
da GIMUSI

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: domenica 7 dicembre 2014, 21:55
da rosa munda
buonasera, non avendo compreso dove inserire una mia domanda, ho scelto di inserirmi nella discussione sulle basi "rispondendo" in questo contesto e chiedo quindi scusa per l'intrusione (se poi qualcuno mi vuole insegnare come devo fare per introdurre una domanda lo ringrazio anticipatamente).
Io volevo solo fare una domanda in merito ad "corso di Algebra Lineare 2013/14 - pagina 137 - lezione 33 - esercizio in fondo pagina" : il professor Gobbino riesce a trovare basi alternative con grande destrezza, mnemonicamente senza dover effettuare la normale procedura mediante sistema lineare per la ricerca dei componenti; anche a me piacerebbe riuscirci ma non riesco a ricostruire il metodo che utilizza per arrivarci né tanto meno il modo in cui controlla il risultato. La mia domanda/richiesta è se il Professore ha la pazienza di svelarmi il mistero mediante una descrizione delle operazioni del caso.
Intanto mi complimento per la sua destrezza mnemonica (io non riesco a tenere a mente nemmeno due numeri da sommare!).
Grazie anticipatamente e molti cordiali saluti.
Rosa Munda

Re: Basi e componenti

Inviato: lunedì 8 dicembre 2014, 8:48
da Massimo Gobbino
Boh, in realtà non c'è nessun mistero ... La base scritta alla penultima riga è frutto del procedimento generale. C'è una sola equazione in 4 variabili, e y, z e w sono libere. Basta quindi usare come (y,z,w) le 3 scelte canoniche (1,0,0), (0,1,0), (0,0,1) e trovare x di conseguenza. Il conto si fa davvero a mente, e non bisogna ricordare nulla in quanto l'equazione è scritta due righe sopra ...

Per ottenere un'altra base si possono mescolare a piacere gli ingredienti precedenti ... I primi due vettori dell'ultima riga si ottengono da quelli della penultima (primo-secondo, primo-2*secondo), il terzo si ottiene mettendo 1 a w e cercando a mente z in modo da risolvere l'equazione. Fa tanta scena, ma di sostanza non ce n'è sostanzialmente nulla. Avrei potuto prendere combinazioni lineari quasi casuali dei primi 3 (ad esempio primo-secondo, primo-2*secondo, primo+terzo) e produrre comunque una base ...