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Forum Studenti •sviluppo di taylor
Pagina 1 di 3

sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: giovedì 29 maggio 2014, 18:22
da matt_93
Salve a tutti,
Ho un dilemma su come usare taylor...
Ho una funzione [tex]f (x, y)=xy^{4}-arctan (xy)[/tex], definita su tutto R2
Devo determinare i punti stazionari e stabilire di che tipo sono....essendo l hessiana un procedimento lungo e noioso, come li determino con gli sviluppi di taylor? E come faccio ad intuire di che tipo sono?

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: giovedì 29 maggio 2014, 23:49
da GIMUSI
allego un possibile svolgimento con entrambi i metodi...non mi pare che in questo caso taylor sia meglio dello studio con l'hessiana :)

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: venerdì 30 maggio 2014, 9:12
da matt_93
Grazie mille, Gimusi,
non c è un modo per farlo senza stare a determinare le derivate seconde?
Ad esempio mi trovo i punti ponendo il gradiente della funzione pari a zero:
Per stabilire se sono di sella non basta sapere come la funzione si comporta in prossimità di tali punti? Ad esempio se prendo la retta y=1 per (0, 1) non basta vedere come si comparta la funzione in quel caso?

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: venerdì 30 maggio 2014, 10:20
da GIMUSI

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: venerdì 30 maggio 2014, 10:33
da matt_93
In pratica voglio vedere come si comporta la funzione vicino al punto considerato...
In (0, 1) posso considerare la retta y=1 e vedere che in (t, 1), la funzione
[tex]t-arctant[/tex] ha un flesso in t=0, questo potrebbe bastare per dire che è un punto di sella?
Lo stesso, potrei considerare (t, t) e vedere che la funzione si comporta allos tesso modo in t=0,
potrebbe essere um valido ragionamento?

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: venerdì 30 maggio 2014, 10:42
da GIMUSI

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: venerdì 6 giugno 2014, 11:35
da Gabe
anch'io ho trovato un problema simile con questa funzione: [tex]f(x,y)=xy/(1+x^4+y^4)[/tex], definita su tutto [tex]R^2[/tex], una volta trovati i punti stazionari facendo il gradiente e risolvendo i sistemi, mi trovo un pò di punti, per vedere di cosa si tratta devo studiare la matrice Hessiana, ma risulta abbastanza lungo questo procedimento ed è facile sbagliarsi, senza contare che c'è la possibilità che poi venga il determinante uguale a 0.
Non ci sono davvero altri metodi?
In questo esercizio ho visto fare questo ragionamento: in [tex](0,0)[/tex] c'è un punto di sella, basta considerare [tex]f(x,x)[/tex] e [tex]f(x, -x)[/tex] vicino a [tex](0,0)[/tex], però non è chiaro il perchè.
Sempre in questo esercizio si dimostra che il limite per [tex]x^2+y^2[/tex] che tendono all'infinito è uguale a [tex]0[/tex], quindi per Weierstrass generalizzato ha punti di massimo e di minimo, perchè? Weierstrass non diceva che se il limite tende a più infinito allora esiste un minimo?

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: sabato 7 giugno 2014, 10:34
da GIMUSI

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: sabato 7 giugno 2014, 19:29
da Massimo Gobbino

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: sabato 7 giugno 2014, 21:43
da GIMUSI

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: domenica 8 giugno 2014, 14:58
da Gabe
Gimusi è una mano Santa per questo forum! :D

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: domenica 8 giugno 2014, 20:57
da GIMUSI

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: sabato 21 giugno 2014, 15:31
da Gabe
quando utilizziamo gli sviluppi di Taylor nell'intorno di un punto, come si fa poi a dire se esso è un punto di max/min o altro solo guardando lo sviluppo?

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: lunedì 23 giugno 2014, 22:12
da GIMUSI

Re: sviluppo di taylor

Inviato: martedì 24 giugno 2014, 14:23
da Gabe
Prendiamo per esempio [tex]f(x, y)=ln(1+x^4+y^2)[/tex], e vogliamo studiare cosa è il punto [tex](0, 0)[/tex],

[tex]H_f(0, 0)= \begin{pmatrix} 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 2 \end{pmatrix}[/tex], quindi è semidefinita positiva,

lo sviluppo di ordine [tex]2[/tex] è [tex]y^2[/tex], sapendo che è semidefinita positiva posso dire che si tratta lo stesso di un punto di minimo?